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Talk:Gunner/@comment-70.57.199.15-20130522223207
You can do anything in Elona if you grind enough. Sure, you COULD play a gunner as a melee fighter, but that is not an effective way to play this role. We can both see that using a gunner for melee fighting is not a good build, something you would not suggest to newbies. So why would we suggest the ineffective hybrid classes? Now let’s look at ALL THE OTHER CLASSES. They all state the OBVIOSE. The entire point of the class suggestion is to state the obvious. Go to the warrior, wizard, archer, or any other class page and you see the obvious way to play. The claymore doesn't say "Makes a great mage if you get some skills!” It tells you how to play as one the obvious way. When noobs come, they don't want the random hybrids, they want the obvious thing. Just look at the other classes for examples. It isn't intimidating the new people. It is helping them. You are saying "This is a great way to play! Get this difficult class/race combo and play exactly as I play!” I am here to say "No. That would be difficult, and doesn't play the strengths of this class well." What you’re saying would be true if you hadn't SUGGESTED IT. If some noob who has no clue how to play the game comes to this page, they will think "Oh, look! I will play a farie/gunner, because the help page says this is a good and easy class to play! YAY!” YOU are the one suggesting your own ways, ways that are NOT the standard way to play. While I do suggest my own way, that is because I play the class straight, the same way a noob should play it if they want what the class is built for. I am not suggesting something stupid, like a snail/gunner melee fighter. That is equally as possible as your "thief farie" or "magic gunner", but it is simply a stupid suggestion that will only help to confuse the people who have no clue how to play. Like I said. It is entirely possible to play this a snail/gunner melee warrior. That is something that is completely stupid. While it is possible, we are trying to help those who don't know how to play the game. So we don't suggest a snail/gunner/ melee fighter. Because doing so would be stupid and would be unable to assist anyone at all. What we need to do is tell the strengths and weaknesses of this class, and how to play to those strengths the best. While many players may want to play a mage, they would probably go to the mage page. THIS PAGE IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY GUNNER. THIS PAGE IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY WIZZARD. This page should thus assist people with playing gunner, not suggest some stupid hybrid that YOU personally like playing but does not play to the strength of the gunner. The rest of the paragraph is just sharing how YOU play the game. Not how to play a gunner, but how to play a warmage. You are a warmage player. You like playing a warmage. You are good at playing a warmage. So you play this class as a warmage. I can understand that. But what I don't understand is why you insist on suggesting to new players that this class is made for playing as a warmage, something it is NOT made to do. Something it is NOT good at. You didn't even mention its main strengths, WHICH THE SECTION IS MADE TO DO. I play as a full ranged character, and have for years. I tried playing a wizard several times, as well as trying to play a thief. But I usually just went back to ranged weapons, buying guns and grenades. I don't play a thief or wizard to its full strength; I am a gunner at heart and play those characters like gunners. But I don't go around to the wizard page and edit it to say "This class can be great at playing a gunner if you use a Yerles/wizard combo, then train up your fire arm and marksman skills, ignoring the magic entirely!". While possible, to doesn't work for newbies well. This is what you don't seem to get. You have personal bias toward warmages, because you play warmages. This class is not meant to play warmages. Why are you suggesting it is to be played that way? Thank you other nameless guy. That would what I would rather have, stating something to actually help rather than putting in the opinion of a random battlemage. Those skills are what YOUR OPINION is. They are all useful, but not necessary. And it caps out at 50, at least the last version of Elona+ did, so it isn't like it is hard to get every skill out there. No, you can't just buy enough potential to get rid of the Yerles bonus. The extra point per level really adds up. My gunner character takes over 30 platinum coins for one training in either marksman or fire arms. Just from the extra point, that is 30 extra platinum coins per level. If I keep leveling up, it will easily pass the ONE skill you would gain in your build. No, they are not clear cut. With hours of grinding, you could make a snail/gunner who is a melee fighter. But that isn't something you want to suggest, because it is A BAD IDIA. The point of the "how to play" is to illustrate the strengths and weaknesses of the class, not for YOU to state your opinion on how poor newbies should play. You might as well suggest here "The actual fighting isn't important. You should just get the skills that farmer has and play a jobber". While technically possible, that ISN"T HOW YOU PLAY A GUNNER. It doesn't help newbies use this class. It just states one play style, one that does not fit this class at all. You saying "alternative ways", BUT YOU HAVE NOT STATED THE MAIN WAY. If someone asks "How do you get to the library from here?", we are each giving them a different answer. My answer is "Walk down this street and take the first left, then your there, a simple statement that helps the person get to the place they want to go easily and quickly. Your suggesting "Turn around three times, hop down the street, take the first right, then a left, then a right, get on the airplane and take a trip to Ontario. While there, snowmobile around the town three times, and then take a train to Chicago. Hire a race car driver to take you to back to town, and then drop you off at the library." While both answers technically work, my answer is made to help the person; yours is made to state the way you personally play. The way I play is the "best". For the "how to play", at least. The way I play the gunner class...is as a gunner. A ranged fighter, who focuses on using fire arms. Which is what the gunner class is made to be, and what the how to should be about. You play as a warmage and a thief, while they are two valid and fun play styles for you; they are not how to play a gunner. They are not what you do to show the strengths and weaknesses of this class. Once again, go look at the other "How to play" sections. The warrior tells you how to be a melee fighter, not how to be a warmage. Likewise the warmage tells you how to be a warmage, not a thief. The thief tells you how to be a thief, not a mage. And the claymore tells you how to play a claymroe, not an archer. So why should the gunner tell you how to play a warmage and a thief? Once again, you are naming ONE SKILL and stating that the other class is better to play because they have a 15 platinum bonuses. The little bonus Yerles starts with fire arms allows you to slaughter past the low level enemies that you encounter, if you get a decent gun you will one hit anything your level easily. The "Gun states" (Apparently you don't get that combat involves multiple states, as you seem completely focused on perception...) that Yerles lacks are...2 points of perception, going of the maximum for the lich (Which you don't seem to get has the highest perception...) is incredibly easy to get for a Yerles. Simply following Mani for a few levels would get that gap closed and improved itself. Just joining gets you 1 point, so it isn't like that would be a huge problem for a character. The two points of perception is nothing, especially considering the negative effects of playing a class like the FARIE, which you suggested.